Top Religious Leaders Denounce Growing Anti-Muslim Sentiment; Express Support for NY Mosque, Community Center

Anti-Muslim stories usually get a lot of press but ordinary Americans are mostly decent folk and react well when anti-Muslim acts occur. American Freedom of Religion is, after all, an American value. There are a lot of good stories out there.

Hi, Powerisknowledge,

The Mosque has been there for years. When they decided to build it into a commmunity center for all faiths is when Pam Geller found it and fed it into the Islamophobia machine. You know, as has been pointed out, there are some pretty shady businesses in the area (nudie shows, etc) which are apparently OK. It is just something to focus on in a negative way.

I just started a new group American Freedom of Religion where I am going to gather the many positive stories about our Muslim neighbors and friends. Please feel free to come check it out. I just needed a place to gather some good items...

I believe referring to religion as "delusional fairy tales" is inflammatory and not conducive to open discussion.

Of course you do, especially if you are a "believer". But if someone is offended by the truth then perhaps they should rethink their personal philosophy and beliefs.

That freedom, I believe, is the underlying reasoning and agenda of this statement.

Agreed, but to not consider other motivations behind such is intellectually lazy. Promoting additional thought beyond a narrow purview.

But I've never known discussion to be advanced by attacking those whose beliefs are different.

Oh, so telling the truth is "attacking"? That mentality is in itself counter-productive to ANY discussion and debate.

Do you not see the hypocrisy of it?

This is silly. I'm an Atheist, and kind of a mean one, but this is a good thing. Whatever underlining cause you may believe is trumped by the benefit of society. Hearing things like this coming from American religious leaders is a good thing.

As an agnostic (or a gnostic, if you prefer) I agree that the whole "argument" over where the Mosque is built is just plain hate speech and should be denounced from both logical and spiritual perspectives.

A song comes to mind from the musical (yes I know I am dating myself) South Pacific: You've Got To Be Carefully Taught sung by the character Lt. Cable just after he says racisim is not born in you! It happens after you’re born..." words to song below.

You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!

What was left out of the comment above, just to clarify, is that the character Lt Cable was not extolling the virtues of bigotry, but mocking them.

In fact there was quite a controversy created over the "appropriateness" of these lyrics in a musical. You can read more about it here :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27ve_Got_to_Be_Carefully_Taught

I've always loved the simplicity of those lyrics. Thanks for posting.

you are most welcome :>)

Kate

Thanks for the advisory.

Such news should have been screamed from the roof tops as a bit of a counterbalance to the hate and fear spewed daily from these religious zealots.

The mouths that say we 'have always been a Christian Nation' are the same mouths that spread fear and hatred about Sharia Law.

I have said and will continue to state that the First Amendment is (part of) the Law of our Country and neither Christian Theocrats nor Muslim Theocrats (nor Mormon Theocrats, nor Anglican) can or will subsume the Constitution!

Regards

Well and truly spoken, Zydor!

I needed that intellectual affirmation. Finally!

o'stephanie,

Just applied for membership, hoping that gnostics are accepted. ;>)

I have stated before that the First Amendment guarantees Freedom from Religion as well as Freedom of Religion. Those who disagree, usually have only a passing acquaintance with the Laws of our land, and the men and women (yes, women) who wrote and influenced those lofty ideals.

If you read the more esoteric texts of each major religion, the Nag Hamadi, the Kabbalah, the recently translated Sufi texts, the Q'uran (yes, the Q'uran), the Enneads, Dhammapada, Bhagavad Gita and too many others to list here you will find that ALL spirituality strives toward the Gnostic, each within its own doctrine.

I never understood the "My God is Better than Your God" pap that seems so commonplace today. People, in general, do not wish to work for their knowledge, they want it fed to them in a magic pill or a 5 second sound bite.

They want "smartphones" with "applications" that do everything and bitch that they don't work fast enough or don't have the "coverage" they believe they should. They want a Dogma to show how Holy they are and a preacher that reinforces that sanctimonious myth. They want a Doctor to cure all the ills they have accumulated by smoking, overeating/eating over-processed or fast food, not exercising, drinking to excess in short ALL of the unhealthy practices of their lives. They read "Cliffs Notes" or condensed versions of books (if they read at all). They reduce language to a series of common, overused colloquialisms, or worse, acronyms. They want an omnibus of demagogues such as pundits, mantics, and Op-Ed writers to spoon feed them their opinions. They want to Vote but feel no obligation to research their candidates and once elected watch their officials to ensure they act on behalf of the constituency rather than for their own profit; then they whinge and complain about the state of the Government. They don’t repair items that are broken, they just buy the new and improved adding to the refuse that threatens to overwhelm the environment. They want, no, need someone, anyone to blame about what they perceive is wrong with their lives but NEVER, not ONCE do they make the effort toward self-improvement.

Right now Muslims, gays, the poor, the infirm, the elderly and the unemployed (insert any I have overlooked) are the whipping-boys. Those that are guilty of this best beware because what they fail to realize is the demonification of ANY group can be turned back on them.

Regards

Barbara,

You are a woman after my own heart. Any religion holds at the heart of it simply a way to learn and think about how to be a good human being, how to do things in a good way and how to relate to the world and all the creatures and living things contained thereof.

This propensity for Americans to be spoon-fed their ideas, I believe, is a direct result of media and marketing. This situation has placed us in a position where the populace is vulnerable to anyone who who has enough money to buy think tanks, "experts, media and politicians to advance their personal (usually greedy) agenda. We all need to look behind that curtain to see who is running the show.

True civic involvement is the only way any society can prosper. Those regions in which the people are happiest include Kerala, India and all the North Countries (Norway, etc.).

I believe I already accepted your membership and sent you a friend request. I am very excited by the response so far and the improvement I am seeing in attitudes and thinking after a summer-long absence from the vine. I tend to be an optimist but also a realist.

Yours in solidarity!

o'stephanie,

You sent FR before I could send one to you and I will happily accept. It is an honor.

We are simpatico on so many levels. Social and Political Activism up to and including Civil Disobedience is what the Founding Fathers did themselves, so anyone who names themselves a Patriot and has abdicated their social responsibility are false patriots.

Endeavoring to elevate the discourse and being in service to others is an aspiration that finds good company. ;>)

Excellent!

Endeavoring to elevate the discourse and being in service to others is an aspiration that finds good company. ;>)

Could not agree more. The times seem to call for good people to step forward.

I have recently come across a quote in a mystery book by Elizabeth Peters (the character claims to be quoting someone) that aptly applies to all false patriots and I find it even more applicable than Thomas Paine's famous The Crisis quote because in this case we are fighting ourselves.

'There sleeps hypocrisy, porkus pomposity, greed, lust, vulgarity, cruelty, trickery, sham and all possible nit-wittery.'

Perhaps Ms. Peters is the author of this quote, but no matter, it seems spot on.

Please notify me when you author or seed.

Thanks and Best Regards

Lo, that it slept stilll...

Paine:

These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.

Thomas Paine is my own favorite founding fathers. That man could write and inspire! He followed the Global Revolution back to England then France. By the time he got back to America, he found that the ideals had been sold out by monied interests. Even then! Jefferson was the only one who would talk to him; he was shunned for his persistant idealism. At his funeral only his French housekeeper and her son was in attendence. She stood and thanked him for his service to France. Belatedly he was honored and they disinterred his bones and shipped them to England where they were to be buried with full honors. The irony of history is that his remains were lost in transit.

My little quote on my column is:

We have it in our power to begin the world over again. Thomas Paine

My favorites are John and Abigail Adams, I read everything I can find (and afford) on them.

Jumping on your thread, now.

Thanks!!!

Loved the OPB series about the Adams. They both were extraordinary.

Wasn't Paul Giamatti the best?!!!

Ambivalent:

When I went to church Sunday I had a surprise. Our minister, who has never in the 7 years he has been with us ever mentioned politics even in a subtle way, spoke eloquently on the subject of Islam and Christianity, encouraging us to not accept the noise and distortions from the fringes, to read and educate ourselves, to work toward enlightening our minds. He finished by pointing out the great shame that has come upon this country, of hatred and intolerance, in the last ten years.

How wonderful to hear that message! So sane and generous and loving. Bless that man and his ilk! And you!!!

I, Borg,

Ecumenicalism is so very sane/ Where it is practiced, it works very well. We have a Church of the Valley in our area which includes those of all faiths--Jewish and Muslim as well. It made a large difference in how our community was able to react strongly and quickly to the Sunday night firebombing of our Mosque with a Tuesday night candlelight vigil and mobilization of volunteers.

When people of faith form community with all, it makes the world a far better place.

I, Borg and o'stephanie,

I have always believed that what is the "truth" is in all religions, and it is the differences that divide and set one against the other.

Best Regards to you both

Quite true, Barbara! Look at how differences affect differing Protestant sects or even how one church will break in half due to doctrinal disputes. Just do not get the unity thing...

o'steph,

Not that your point needs any more support because you nailed it, but when I was a kid of 20, I had a gaggle of female roommates (you remember those days, dirt poor, school and work). One of them was a nice girl who was Lutheran and her boyfriend cum fiance' was Lutheran also.

His parents would harangue him about religious differences until one day he broke it off with her, saying they would not be able to overcome this hurdle. As you may imagine she was devastated.

You may ask why, since they were both Lutheran. Well, she was Wisconsin synod Lutheran and he was Missouri synod. THAT'S JUST ABOUT HOW STUPID IT GETS!

Warm Regards as always

So right! It even disrupts families. (She was lucky she got rid of him.)

When I taught Sunday school, there was one family whose dad was Presbyterian and the mom was Catholic; the boy was Catholic, the girl was Presby. Dad was a complete jerk and very vocal about hating Catholicism. I made my class a lesson in diversity, asking his boy to show us the sign of the cross, comparing The Lord's Prayer and let them know that I was raised Catholic. Once that door was shut, I taught compassion and love.

Good for you! I am getting to admire you more and more. I do NOT understand how the Dad could interject his own pejorative prejudices into his FAMILY.

As an aside: my Daughter, who was raised with diversity (her Father being Methodist and I was raised Catholic) is heavily involved with a Jewish young man (they are talking marriage). Neither of them, nor any of the Parents or Step-Parents (my ex and I have remarried) have ANY problem with the diversity. You may already be familar with the fact that children born to a non-Jewish woman are considered to be not Jewish.

HOWEVER, she was recently and pointedly NOT invited to a wedding on his Father's side of the Family because they didn't want a goy at a familyfunction. Further, at a Family Bar Mitzvah, one of the cousins said to her "You're not Jewish, are you?" and whe she confirmed that fact, he added, "Then why are you here?". Just goes to show you: one step forward and two steps back.

She called me in tears (both events were days apart), and I explained my own experience being engaged to a Jewish man. It did not work out but NOT because of religion. At the end of the conversation, she not only felt better, she was laughing at some of the absurd things that happened to me in that relationship. I hope that they both base their lives on what THEY want rather than what some obscure, tertiary relative thinks or feels.

Regards

Extended family ("relatives") simply does not have the "love over-ride". I have been to a Bat Mitzvah and a Jewish wedding as a friend and was welcomed at both. Just idiots. (Like to leave them off the wedding list though..."Sorry, we just didn't want any intolerant people at our family wedding.")

Admire you too, gal!!!

(Like to leave them off the wedding list though..."Sorry, we just didn't want any intolerant people at our family wedding.")

I like your spunk, gal!

Still enjoying one hundred per cent agreement?

Well, in my defense I seemed unable to detrack and thus I continued to be notified of new comments. I've already discussed my understanding of what a Liberal considers to be a troll, but, that being said, and you'll note I really said nothing in my comment which disagrees with you, except I suggested agreement whereas you actually suggest that I should have seen some evidence of different values in the participants.

Perhaps you would like to share an example?

I guess I should thank you for your comment on my generally "non-trollish" behavior, and I can see where you might feel I was breaking up the party. I'm not against agreement, nor am I against civility. I just find it ironic that you support all manner of non-cohesive behavior "out there", but when it comes to "here" you find shared values quite comforting. I do too.

When I taught Sunday school, there was one family whose dad was Presbyterian and the mom was Catholic; the boy was Catholic, the girl was Presby

I was raised Catholic and attended Catholic school, mom was Catholic (she's now more agnostic), my dad Quaker.

At the time of my First Communion, my dad made a point of going with me to the altar and did accept a Host--all the children were accompanied by fathers. The freak out was huge from some of the holier-than-thou Catholics who even tried to get me booted from the school! My father acted respectfully and did not ever go to Communion again.

As for me, I left the Church in high school, never confirmed. Too many disagreements with their politics and treatment of women, not to mention that I am not one willing to say one religion is better or more correct than another. Who am I to diss the millions/billions who think their religion is the correct one? I still find beauty in the Mass as ceremony, but I can't be a member of a religion I don't agree with. Especially with one that has an ex-Hitler Youth as its leader!

TJG,

When I was young (HS age) I sang in a "Folk Mass" with two male friends who played guitar (you will understand later why I interject gender into this discussion) and another female friend who also sang.

All went along fine until a new priest took over the Parish and said that the "boys" (his words not mine) could continue standing next to the altar (where we normally stood) but the "girls" could not because they were "not sanctified".

Obviously we couldn't perform that way and so the two guys came down to stand by the vocalists. It was not until much later that I was to understand that "not sanctified" meant unclean. Really? This from a generation of pedophiles?

Shortly thereafter I was standing by the sanctuary door and heard a young father introducing his two children to this new Parish priest. The priest ignored the little girl but praised the little boy. Just like me, the dad did not get it at first and so he said "Father this is my little girl whom you have not met yet.". The priest excused himself by saying that he had already met the son so now he had other matters to attend to. Again, Really?

Yeah, I understood it, probably the same moment as the Dad did. I left the Church within the week and looked for something better. My Mom, who did volunteer work for the Church, allowed me my own choices and never remonstrated me for this.

I still miss the magic of Midnight Mass on Christmas eve, but not enough to put up with the misogyny of that priest.

That's pretty scary, Barbara.

Even as a kid, I wondered why a woman couldn't be a priest, why (back then) as a girl, I couldn't be an altar server. I really look back to that incident with my father as to when I started to question the Church and I was all of 7 then. Why would anyone be so hateful to a young girl whose father was just trying to help her fit in?

Now, one can go to the priest at Communion and just ask for a blessing, but back then, it wasn't done that way

My parents were fine with my choice not to be confirmed. My extended family (grandma, aunts, cousins) often question me and I'm made to feel like a lazy loafer when I don't get up on Sundays when visiting them to attend Mass. I've never looked back.

Barbara and Jones Girl,

Growing up Catholic gives a person quite a history, eh?

At parochial school, all the girls played at being nuns. I, however, wanted to be a priest but "celebrated mass" in my closet at home. My mom would come at communion time to take communion. Some strange times. All in all, I am glad I was a girl that the priests ignored.

I love ritual and ceremony too. Midnight mass memories! (Even loved the stations of the cross.)

o'steph and TJG,

Here is a happy thought from my childhood. The first doll I remember getting was a Nun doll! Really. A Nun doll.

Still cracks me up. ;>))))

I want a nun doll!

My mom taught Sunday school when I was in preschool. Needed a priest doll, had a Ken with no shoes. I still have the Ken with black painted feet and vestments, LOL.

I wantg a nun doll!!! Always wanted a whimple and was curious about the underwear... Can you divulge any secret wardrobe details without committing a venial sin?

In first grade, I remember being SHOCKED when the nuns showed up at a skating party (yes, this was the early 80s) out of their veils. Blew my mind.

I was pre-Vatican II so never saw them in anything but the habit. I loved my first grade nun but the rest of them scared me.

TJG and o'steph,

Unlike Mormons, Nuns don't wear magic underwear, so no secrets to divulge.

Two years ago I went to a Halloween Party in a Nun costume and introduced myself to my daughter's date as Sister Marry-My-Daughter-Please. Some habits never die.

Love it! LOL

Yet another story... My dad used to send a dollar to the Maryknoll Missionary Seminary. That grand donation brought us a booklet with names and pictures of all that year's graduates. My mom and I used to look through it to find "Father What-a-Waste".

Thanks for the undies information. Still want a whimple! Am going to a costume party for Halloween and am still unsure of a costume...

Sad, Isn't it?